Battle of the egos: There are no winners

Today I found myself in a rather interesting exchange with another member in a facebook group about non-duality. The lady had put up a post stating essentially “ The self is not a witness to creation. The self can never be a witness. Anyone who says the self witnesses creation has interpreted book knowledge without the right interpretation.”

I asked for a clarification whether the person making such a statement was speaking from a waking state or Turiya state, because she had made a reference to the Turiya state where only self exists, no other objects. She claimed she had been “realized “ for fifty years!

She kept saying “ it is a blatant lie” to say that the self witnesses creation. I was presenting my side of thought that most aspirants are thinking in the waking state where creation is real for them. Unless they are taught to direct the focus to the witness (instead of what is witnessed) it is difficult to comprehend the concept that there are no objects. She went on insisting that saying self is a witness is a lie. I tried to make her understand that although I very much understand where she is coming from, there are things that are “ relative truths” ( as opposed to absolute truths). I wouldn’t call them lies. 

It was fine up to the point where she did not agree or see my point. But then she did not stop there. She began to misread my statements and called my thoughts deluded. The berating continued to escalate.

Finally I told her that I had learned a lot from the exchange and thanked her for engaging.

Next thing I know she writes this:

Madhavi Risbudi  well look, you are probably way smarter than i am..but keep in mind its better to get satsang from an illiterate sage then from a scholar who isnt realized..nice chatting

At that point I told her I do not consider myself smarter than anyone nor carry a label of being realized. I suggested her to spare a moment if possible to look up Chokha mela, Soyrabai, Janabai, Namdev, Muktabai and said these are some of the “illiterate sages” whose teachings have nurtured my thoughts. 

Her reply in a few minutes was that she looked them up… 

Madhavi Risbud i looked them all up..i have no idea about them...as for me, none of the gurus i look up to were illiterate..heres my page, baba hari dass (rip) is my guru the rest are all gurus that i;ve learned from..( website)

Finally I couldn’t hold back.

CP I can understand why one may not get an idea about the names that you looked up. One has to understand their teachings to get the satsang. And to understand, the first requisite is to read each word carefully and make an attempt to understand and not dismiss them as being delusional. 

If being in nirvikalp samadhi leads to not reading what the other person is trying to say and infer that they are ignorant and start advising them about who to follow and who not to follow then I rather dread such nirvikalpa samadhi! 

I truly learned a lot from our exchange. I learned the dangers that come from believing one is realized. I learned a whole lot of what not to do. Self teaches self in nonduality. Learning never stops. 🙏🏼🙏🏼

In my mind the final words were “ Hari Om” 🙏🏼🙏🏼. My temporary ego was surrendered at her feet.

The exchange truly made me think deeper. The minute one starts saying “ I am realized” and “ you are deluded “, that’s a red flag. 

The moment someone remains stubborn in their vocabulary and shows no signs of trying to understand your words it is obvious that you are not going to have a conversation here. They are bent on proving themselves rather than having a satsang, or mutual growth through exchange of thoughts. 

Most importantly I was intrigued by her audacity to suggest to me to turn to illiterate sages for satsang rather than a scholar who is not realized, and then brag that none of her gurus were illiterate!

A person who classifies gurus as literate and illiterate, does she or he understand what a Guru is? 

It really made me think about the definition and pertinence of literacy in the context of not just spiritual studies but also ordinary human communication. The wisdom of all saints was equal and entirely independent of their literacy or formal education. Literacy was irrelevant in value of their message. The qualification of the students too was independent of their literacy and education.To grasp the wisdom what was needed was an open mind, humility and serious desire to understand the other person. How can you claim to be “realized” if you can’t see another person as an equal when exchanging thoughts? 

The “Darshan” of the spiritual ego was frightening to say the least. I had great dilemma whether to show her the mirror or not but I found it hard to remain silent when she told me what kind of guru to learn from. The mistakes she was making, I could make tomorrow. That’s the power of Maya! Maya can be ruthlessly humbling. And therefore it is essential to cut oneself down to nothingness at every step when talking to people, even if it is a beggar on the street. You don’t need to necessarily give them money but it is unacceptable to look down upon them. Just verbally saying “ you are smarter” and then making no pretense to tell them they are ignorant is telling a lot about yourself. They are merely objects to you when you talk them down. 

She came in my life today as a guru to teach me about the dangers to watch for in the spiritual journey. 

Had there been no thought from my mind to question her thoughts would there be any display of egos from both sides? Should I have just remained silent? Would I lose anything to stay silent and not question anything? Let’s see if my mind can do that. 

These days I’m increasingly becoming aware that no amount of humility is going to be enough in life. Any deficit of humility is going to reveal the tatters of the soul. And there are many tatters already. 

To be able to listen to what the other person has to say is a sign of literacy. To be hung up in your limited line of thought is a sign of illiteracy. To be able to find some common ground is a sign of literacy. To derogate the other person is illiteracy. 

Perhaps this is the reason why I have always felt at home with simple village folks. That is perhaps why Janabai and Chokha Mela and Muktabai seem like family elders. 

No matter what, there is always a lesson in every interaction. Some lessons are sweeter than others, that’s all. But the bitter ones hold more medicinal value. I got vaccinated today! Hopefully the immunity will last for a while before it is time for the next booster.